Addition Fader

[dayvyg]

Have you considered creating a bus module and send/return module to pair with the Addition Fader? Could then create a modular mixing console.

d.

[utdgrant]

Have you considered creating a bus module and send/return module to pair with the Addition Fader? Could then create a modular mixing console.

d.

You'd have to be very careful about the additional propagation delay in the send/return signal. Every cable connection between module jacks introduces a delay of 1/48,000 sec. If you combine signals with different delay paths, you'll get weird phase cancellations.

[dayvyg]

Hmmm..., I had no idea. Yes, that presents more of a challenge than I expected.

[playertron]

Well the good news is, the Addition Fader can already do that (fx sends/returns) and also that the "problem" of cable delays isn't even theoretically a problem except in very specific circumstances where we both have a set of phase-locked audio (like synced oscillators) and high freq content (beyond the typical musical uses of synced oscs) to have even a little phase cancellation (and high freq content created after any synced osc from effects/etc won't be a specific problem either b/c, at that point, phase is already more complicated).

So, for instance, if you are mixing different sequenced parts like synths/drums/bass/etc, you needn't think about this at all. And, if you're submixing signals within a patch, you only (maybe) need to worry about something like mixing raw synced oscillators running above something like C8 (which of course might also run into other artifacts from digital audio anyway). For something like sending audio to a reverb and back, which is already literally a phase smearing, or for sending audio to a distortion and back, you'd be in good hands (or at least if you consider that there is already a couple sample delay in routing/processing a distortion anyway, you're still in the same boat). Anyway, while the philosopher in me can still get worried, but the engineer in me thinks that an unobservable problem might not be a problem at all

Btw, I don't mean to sound dismissive of the concern. It'd be easy to add sample accurate compensation for folks who feel bothered by even the philosophical possibility of compromise and, really, for the folks who are doing super cool, wild things that actually make a sample delay matter. (there are also sample delays out there already, which exist for such purposes) I don't have more time at the moment, but I'll come back to explaining more of the above (how to do an fx loop) and get to work updating the Addition Fader with sample delay compensation when I can...

And thanks for both using the Addition Fader and getting into deep thoughts about it - I love modular folks for that!

[dayvyg]

Okay, thanks for explaining that and I await your fx loop how to.

d.

[playertron]

Have you considered creating a bus module and send/return module to pair with the Addition Fader? Could then create a modular mixing console.

d.

So a send/return could look like this. Just take an split an output, divert it to an effect/2nd Addition Fader (AF), and back to the "link" input of the first AF:

Screen Shot 2023-02-18 at 1.42.01 PM.png (2.26 MiB) Viewed 8770 times

[playertron]

Or, a post-fader version could look like this, where the AF output is diverted to an effect/2nd AF, and then joining at the next set of link inputs.

Screen Shot 2023-02-18 at 1.44.36 PM.png (2.2 MiB) Viewed 8769 times

[playertron]

Or maybe, you want something like this, where any number of things go to the same fx loop. This requires more wires, but it can be done very nicely by using the bus feature (right click a jack and choose a bus/add new buss) going to the AF (here, it'd replace the pink wires).

Screen Shot 2023-02-18 at 1.48.21 PM.png (2.22 MiB) Viewed 8768 times

[playertron]

A bus would look like this, where individual sources each go through their own AF and meet at the input of one more AF (and again, you can use the bus feature to do this with less wires everywhere):

Screen Shot 2023-02-18 at 1.52.38 PM.png (1.13 MiB) Viewed 8768 times

[playertron]

And the nice thing is that you can sort of add faders a la carte and then rearrange them at the end, into a single mixing board:

Screen Shot 2023-02-18 at 1.55.27 PM.png (2 MiB) Viewed 8768 times