Granular Synth Breakout

[ColinP]

gsbreakout.png (91.18 KiB) Viewed 6746 times

This is the current version of the GS Breakout module.

It'll maybe change a tiny bit before release but I'm pretty happy with it as it is.

It will be an optional expander for the Granular Synth that offers access to various signals.

You can use it to send GS internal modulation to other modules or process internal signals (maybe mixing them with external mod sources) before sending the results back into GS using the external mod inputs.

Some outputs are handy for other tasks - for instance RECORD STARTED can streamline capturing audio samples by triggering a sound when the Record button is pressed.

It's also good for making a pair of Granular Synths work together.

Three simple utilities on the right can be used to do some processing without the need for other modules. At top there's a four-quadrant multiplier (AKA bipolar VCA or Ring Modulator). In the middle an attenuvertor. At the bottom a comparator - useful for generating square/pulse waveforms from the LFOs amongst other things.

The colored dots refer to the color coding used in Granular Synth for modulation sources.

[Steve W]

Wild!!!!

[PoorFellow]

I think that you should have included Granular Synth Breakout in the Granular Synth bundle or made a bundle with all your modules at an 'affordable' price..
If like I you do not notice that the Granular Synth bundle is incomplete then it's not a nice surprise to find out that it is !
And it do appear as a lot of the , at least potential, functionality of Granular Synth has been put into the Granular Synth Breakout...

(Also would have been nice with some presets bundled with Granular Synth, more than one please !, especially since C.A. does not allow people to add custom folders to factory preset folders location so one have to use User presets folder. Further more then I could not download most presets using Firefox browser , unknown error, so I had to use an alternative browser, download problem may be in my browser only , I dunno !)

[ColinP]

I think that you should have included Granular Synth Breakout in the Granular Synth bundle or made a bundle with all your modules at an 'affordable' price..

I do appreciate your points. GS at $45 looks expensive compared with some things in the store and it doesn't include GS Breakout and there aren't presets but let me try to address those from my perspective.

I routinely apply large discounts to Adroit modules so that people on tight budgets can hopefully afford them. So the GS bundle is now on sale at $29. GS Breakout at $7.50. Even at full price LSSP XL come in at not much over $1 per module. It's now something like 85 cents per module, I think.

The Granular Synth took over 1,600 hours to program plus hundreds of hours more for documentation. I suspect people imagine that sales of VM modules are considerably higher than they are. In reality with luck I might eventually make about half minimum wage for those 1,600+ hours.

I do this work for peanuts because I am passionate about it, not to make a fortune. Halving the price doesn't double the volume. So I charge what I think is a reasonable amount that makes me just enough money so that I can reduce my hours in my other job to a "safety net" minimum.

Working 40+ hours a week for $2 an hour simply isn't practical, so I have to set prices realistically.

I split off GS Breakout so that the GS bundle would be cheaper. You can do mind-boggling things with the GS bundle which features GS, Chord and Chord Memory and now GS MIDI X. GS Breakout is some icing on the cake for people who want to go even further, but it's not an essential module.

Presets are of limited value in my mind for something open ended like GS or LSSP. They have great value as tools to understand principles but if all you want is a box with preset sounds then there are plenty of options already on the market. My work is addressing people who want to make theiir own unique music/sounds. Also the randomization in GS and most LSSP sequencers help people discover possibilites from a much wider spectrum than presets ever could. Having said that I do intend to produce more presets but I really dread to think of people limiting their creative potential by just using them.

I hope the above helps explains why things are the way things are. Ultimately nobody is forcing you to buy Adroit software and you can try out things like LSSP and GS for free for reasonable lengths of time and then move on to something else if you think the cost is unreasonable.

Best Regards,
Colin

[PoorFellow]

Ultimately nobody is forcing you to buy Adroit software and you can try out things like LSSP and GS for free for reasonable lengths of time and then move on to something else if you think the cost is unreasonable.

Best Regards,
Colin

Hi Colin ,
Very kind of you indeed to take time to answer me here. (especially considered how another developer doesn't answer any questions at all as to bundle availability !)
Also I appreciate all you wrote , including your general position. I won't say that you are preaching to the choir but close. I am fully aware from sheer logic reasoning and deduction how this at least for many developers must be first and foremost an occupation of passion for developers here more than for financial gain. Though , I think that some , including the developer who do not answer and who most likely have become bitter over poor sales or over that many looks at price also , including myself I do admit. (and with present world crisis a lot may get a lot worse, only time will tell if and how much)
However I do *not* appreciate your last paragraph about nobody is forcing me to buy and you somehow miss some of my point here.
You stared yourself blind on one section of my writing , where I write : "I think that you should have included Granular Synth Breakout in the Granular Synth bundle or made a bundle with all your modules at an 'affordable' price..".

What you do not remember is yourself writing in Breakout Module mention section of "Granular Synth" description where you end up writing (quote) :
"It is sold separately rather than included in the bundle in order to make the Granular Synth more affordable."

So the 'affordable' mention here is as much a reference to your own writing and description as it is anything else !
You can not point at anything , even the tiniest squeak in the above where I question how you have priced your modules or bundles.
And I did buy the "Granular Synth" bundle today.
I went to Adroit Synthesis store page (https://store.cherryaudio.com/manufactu ... -synthesis ) , clicked bundles, looked at content of said bundles , looked at upper part of "Granular Synth" bundle page and in that found no mention of the Breakout Module.
Wanted to try the "Granular Synth" and I became at least slightly annoyed that I found no presets included to demonstrate the "Granular Synth". I then navigates to "Granular Synth" help page on your site and where suddenly, if not every other expression is 'Breakout Module', then going through the page then it is mentioned quite a lot , a lot for something not included in the bundle that I bought. Including a 'headline' then there is a mention 10 times of the "Breakout Module" on the "Granular Synth" help page ! Where as I find ONE mention of the "Breakout Module" on the "Granular Synth" bundle page at the very bottom where some people may not even get to look , at least I didn't initially !.
So , sorry , but I have to stick to what I wrote initially ! : "I think that you should have included Granular Synth Breakout in the Granular Synth bundle".
My greatest gripe with you not including the 'Breakout Module' in "Granular Synth" bundle is , yes , you got that right, about money , but it is not so much about expensive versus cheap as you think. It is much more about that when I decide to buy something and I then in doing so DO accept spending a certain amount on something then I just do not like to find out later that I have to spend more than I just did because what I bought is not really the complete thing to fully enjoy the "Granular Synth".
I do understand that a lot of other modules that you make maybe will make the "Granular Synth" a lot better in the sense of maybe enhancing the "Granular Synth" but that's an entirely other discussion and is as one ought to expect.
But the Breakout Module' is "Granular Synth" and as such ought to have been included in the bundle , or at the very least get an honorable mention at bundle page top including why it is not included in bundle !

Thank you very much for taking time out of a maybe busy schedule to attend here and for reading this.
I hope that I at least have made my position and point both clearer and better explained !

Best regards

[ColinP]

Sorry, but I thought I addressed all your points and with considerable candour. Perhaps I did not express myself as clearly as I should have.

I'm not sure if you realise it but you are using a public forum to imply that I am deceitful. It's not nice being on the receiving end of such remarks given that I have been entirely transparent about what the Granular Synth bundle both includes and excludes and that offering paid for extras for a product is completely normal business practice.

All details about my products are publically available. The store page shows a screenshot of the modules included along with a full textual description. The full documentation can be read without having to do a trial demo. And if any one cares to examine the full documentation they will see that the minimal references to the Breakout are simply explaining how the two modules interact.

The GS Breakout module is not an intrinsic component of the Granular Synth. It adds extra functionality yes, but the modules included in the bundle provide a fully functional setup that is sophisticated enough to provide an average synth enthusiast with several months worth of exploration and a huge sonic palette.

A free 14 day trial is available so people can try out exactly what the bundle offers.

This thread that you are posting on begins with me saying "It will be an optional expander for the Granular Synth that offers access to various signals".

I could have included the Breakout module in the GS bundle but that would have resulted in a higher price. As many users might never actually use the Breakout making it optional seemed reasonable. Some people buy both the bundle and the Breakout at the same time, most buy just the bundle. Some people after playing with the bundle decide to add the Breakout as they can see that the added functionality might be useful in large patches and its sub-modules might come in handy in situations that don't even involve GS.

The extra income I make from selling the optional Breakout helps to tip the balance between being able to continue developing large scale projects like GS or not. I'm not trying to trick anybody, I'm offering a choice so that some people can pay extra if they like the extra functionality the Breakout offers.

The reason why the Granular Synth module isn't sold as a single unit is that I wanted to keep the quantization as flexible as possible and the GS module reasonably compact. I therefore decided to offload the quantization via an S-Poly connection. For people who already had LSSP this offered a great deal of utility but it seemed unfair to expect people to buy LSSP just in order to exploit the quantization features. So I included Chord and Chord Memory as freebies with the Granular Synth. The fact that a bundle is the only mechanism to support delivery of several modules at once as described above does not imply that other products that are closely related to the Granular Synth will be available free of charge.

A reasonable complaint from LSSP users might be that they didn't get any discount on the GS bundle. But given that I was only reusing 2 of the 53 modules in LSSP XL I thought it was a justifiable situation given that LSSP is actually a fantastic bargain (IMHO) and that LSSP users get more out of GS than non LSSP users. The discount would amount to just a few dollars so I didn't think that people would think the situation was too unfair.

We then come to the question of why is GS MIDI X included in the bundle but not GS Breakout. The answer is that I've been working in the background on another paid for add-on project called the Sowing Machine. This GS specific product will not be included in the bundle either and it will be more expensive than the Breakout. The problem with the Sowing Machine project is that every time I look at it I come up with a new idea. It's become a very difficult design space as it needs a lot of mulling over and experimentation to pin down. So I thought wouldn't it be nice to take one of the ideas from Sowing Machine and build a module (GS MIDI X) and provide it as a bonus module in the bundle to say thank you to early adopters of GS and perhaps as some compensation to LSSP users not getting the small discount mentioned above. Also as a bit of a lift in difficult times.

Also unlike most other developers I reveal what I am working on ahead of time in order to get feedback and to alert other developers as to what I might be releasing down the line (what they do with this info is up to them). But I've been talking about the Sowing Machine for so long that I thought I should maybe release one of its algorithms in to the wild so to speak.

Anyway, I've been waffling on for far too long. I suspect that you remain very unhappy. I think the best course of action is for you to ask CA for a full refund. I'll contact them to say that I will cover the cost of that refund.

[PoorFellow]

I'm not sure if you realise it but you are using a public forum to imply that I am deceitful. It's not nice being on the receiving end of such remarks given that I have been entirely transparent about what the Granular Synth bundle both includes and excludes and that offering paid for extras for a product is completely normal business practice.

Excuse me ! , I have done no such thing. And it's completely beyond my understanding how you can turn my writing into that. What I did were to suggest that you moved the information about the GS Breakout to a more prominent place on GS bundle page, which might also even help increase the sale of the module ! . I never thought you deceitful. At most I thought that you were looking to earn extra money by selling as extra (what I think ought to have been included - even at increased cost). And of course you wish to earn more , that is obvious , all your reasoning are financial ! You write that you do not include GS Breakout in GS bundle to make bundle more affordable (can IMO only be construed as a greater wish to sell more than a wish to sell a complete pack). And obviously you both wish and hope that people will buy the GS Breakout also !
SO I JUST DID ! (bought the GS Breakout also ! ) So that discussion is then over OK ! ?

Anyway, I've been waffling on for far too long. I suspect that you remain very unhappy. I think the best course of action is for you to ask CA for a full refund. I'll contact them to say that I will cover the cost of that refund.

After you in the above have allowed yourself to tell me what I think and mean when I write stuff by telling me that I have accused you of being deceitful (which I would have implied directly or indirectly if that's what I meant !) -
then you have the audacity to start making decisions as for my relations to Cherry Audio shop on my behalf by totally *UNSOLICITED* start making preparations for a refund on my behalf of something that I have bought ! What's next ? (To offer is 'OK' but it is not OK to start making unsolicited 'preparations' !)
Have the courtesy to stay out of my Cherry Audio Shop decision making ! If I wanted a refund I would have asked for one. You are the one obsessed with money. I am poor and always have been because I am not !
Unlike you I won't start dealing unsolicited advice to you about your life decisions though it sounds like you need some !

[Steve W]

Yesterday I wrote a reply but didn't post it because I was hoping the dissonance would dissipate and I didn't want to add fuel to a heated thread.

Here's what I wrote:

I think that you should have included Granular Synth Breakout in the Granular Synth bundle or made a bundle with all your modules at an 'affordable' price..

You can not point at anything , even the tiniest squeak in the above where I question how you have priced your modules or bundles.

To me saying he "should have included" the breakout box in a bundle sounds like a complaint to me. Additionally, "or made a bundle with all your modules at an 'affordable' price sounds like you have an issue with the price that you would not have had if the conditions after "you should have" had been met.

"You can not point at anything, even the tiniest squeak . . . where I question . . . " might be true if you are being literal, but I think others (not just me) might understand you to mean what I said it sounded like to me.

Today I see this:

I'm not sure if you realise it but you are using a public forum to imply that I am deceitful. It's not nice being on the receiving end of such remarks given that I have been entirely transparent about what the Granular Synth bundle both includes and excludes and that offering paid for extras for a product is completely normal business practice.

Excuse me ! , I have done no such thing. And it's completely beyond my understanding how you can turn my writing into that.

I am not sure I would have used the word deceitful, but I would agree that your (PoorFellow's) prior post definitely gave a negative impression and I was kind of wishing that instead of being defensive ("You can not point at anything . . . .") you (PoorFellow) would have apologized for writing a post that was open to such a negative interpretation.

You state, "And it's completely beyond my understanding how you can turn my writing into that." I hope my explanation here helps you to see how your (PoorFellow's) comments come off in a negative manner.

I would say that you (PoorFellow) misrepresented what Androit Systems/ColinP did by having the Breakout Box as a separate purchase (not as part of a bundle). I cannot say your post was intentional misrepresentation, but it (your post) allowed for a negative impression that to me contradicts what he actually said and did.

This is all very distasteful to me. I would encourage you (PoorFellow) to rethink your post(s) with a understanding of how it (they) might have left an impression you claim you didn't intend.

[PoorFellow]

Yesterday I wrote a reply but didn't post it because I was hoping the dissonance would dissipate and I didn't want to add fuel to a heated thread.

Here's what I wrote:

I think that you should have included Granular Synth Breakout in the Granular Synth bundle or made a bundle with all your modules at an 'affordable' price..

You can not point at anything , even the tiniest squeak in the above where I question how you have priced your modules or bundles.

To me saying he "should have included" the breakout box in a bundle sounds like a complaint to me. Additionally, "or made a bundle with all your modules at an 'affordable' price sounds like you have an issue with the price that you would not have had if the conditions after "you should have" had been met.

"You can not point at anything, even the tiniest squeak . . . where I question . . . " might be true if you are being literal, but I think others (not just me) might understand you to mean what I said it sounded like to me.

Today I see this:

I'm not sure if you realise it but you are using a public forum to imply that I am deceitful. It's not nice being on the receiving end of such remarks given that I have been entirely transparent about what the Granular Synth bundle both includes and excludes and that offering paid for extras for a product is completely normal business practice.

Excuse me ! , I have done no such thing. And it's completely beyond my understanding how you can turn my writing into that.

I am not sure I would have used the word deceitful, but I would agree that your (PoorFellow's) prior post definitely gave a negative impression and I was kind of wishing that instead of being defensive ("You can not point at anything . . . .") you (PoorFellow) would have apologized for writing a post that was open to such a negative interpretation.

You state, "And it's completely beyond my understanding how you can turn my writing into that." I hope my explanation here helps you to see how your (PoorFellow's) comments come off in a negative manner.

I would say that you (PoorFellow) misrepresented what Androit Systems/ColinP did by having the Breakout Box as a separate purchase (not as part of a bundle). I cannot say your post was intentional misrepresentation, but it (your post) allowed for a negative impression that to me contradicts what he actually said and did.

This is all very distasteful to me. I would encourage you (PoorFellow) to rethink your post(s) with a understanding of how it (they) might have left an impression you claim you didn't intend.

It doesn't matter what I write when you have made up your mind before hand like before you read anything else here in this particular discussion !
You have *NOTHING* factual to put all your criticism at , all is your interpretation and you see what you wants to see and ignore what doesn't fit your interpretation !

I wrote :
Quote : "Also I appreciate all you wrote , including your general position. I won't say that you are preaching to the choir but close"
Quote : it is not so much about expensive versus cheap as you think. It is much more about that when I decide to buy something and I then in doing so DO accept spending a certain amount on something then I just do not like to find out later that I have to spend more than I just did because what I bought is not really the complete thing to fully enjoy the "Granular Synth".
Quote : But the Breakout Module' is "Granular Synth" and as such ought to have been included in the bundle , or at the very least get an honorable mention at bundle page top including why it is not included in bundle !
Quote : What I did were to suggest that you moved the information about the GS Breakout to a more prominent place on GS bundle page, which might also even help increase the sale of the module !
Quote : "So the 'affordable' mention here is as much a reference to your own writing and description as it is anything else !"



Even me actually buying the module in question this afternoon apparently doesn't amount to diddly squat here in this conversation !

Also you apparently have no problem what so ever with ColinP trying to initiate a product return that I never asked for in the slightest !

The only thing that you get right as far as I am concerned is when you write about "negative interpretation" .
But it would all have been extremely funny , had it not all been so serious , that you can not see yourself in all of this , how that that is all you do as well as ColinP , perform negative interpretation that is !
So nothing I do , nothing I write really matters , here you read what you want , see what you want and completely and totally disregard the rest !

Usually you are one of the nicest guys around here Steve W , but this time you have made a poor judgement call !

[Steve W]

Yesterday I wrote a reply but didn't post it because I was hoping the dissonance would dissipate and I didn't want to add fuel to a heated thread.

It doesn't matter what I write when you have made up your mind before hand like before you read anything else here in this particular discussion !
You have *NOTHING* factual to put all your criticism at , all is your interpretation and you see what you wants to see and ignore what doesn't fit your interpretation !

Also you apparently have no problem what so ever with ColinP trying to initiate a product return that I never asked for in the slightest !

The only thing that you get right as far as I am concerned is when you write about "negative interpretation" .

Usually you are one of the nicest guys around here Steve W , but this time you have made a poor judgement call !

I tried to reach out to you in hopes that that you would understand how your post could be interpreted negatively and that you might want to correct that impression. Although my hope was well-intentioned, based on the tone of your direct reply to me, I agree that I erred in my judgment of you.

For the record:
(1) I didn't make up my mind before hand; my comments were based on what you wrote as I read them, not before I read them.
(2) As for choosing not to get involved in the refund issue, I felt that was between Colin and CA and between them and you.
(3) Your verbal hostility towards me (for example, "You have *NOTHING* factual to put all your criticism at , all is your interpretation and you see what you wants to see and ignore what doesn't fit your interpretation ! " tells me you are a hostile communicator. And yes, that is my interpretation based solely on your words. I could cite all sorts of sources about what constitutes a "hostile communicator" but I have other things to do.

Peace.