Cherry Audio Forums

Hi,
First let me say that the VM interface is fantastic and a joy to use. That said, I'm just starting out with it the last few days and I've tried to use the Audio In within Reaper to run an audio signal through VM as an effect. However, even when I disconnect the Audio In or (Master) Audio Out(?) within VM, I still get (unprocessed) audio playing through. I'd like to hear nothing until I connect the VM cables, then hear _just_ the processed signal.
This might have something to do with hardware effects boxes; IIRC, they can be set up as Direct or Send/Return. In the former case, just the processed signal is heard. In the Send/Return case, the direct and processed signals are mixed and heard. I've messed around with that concept in hardware (like a Kaosspad or various mixers), and have a tough time getting _just_ the wet signal. Maybe I don't understand it properly, and someone could clarify it for me? Or maybe that's just how VM works: any Audio In signals automatically gets passed through to the Outs?

Thanks,
Tom

Hi Tom,

<< IIRC, they can be set up as Direct or Send/Return. In the former case, just the processed signal is heard. In the Send/Return case, the direct and processed signals are mixed and heard. [...] maybe that's just how VM works: any Audio In signals automatically gets passed through to the Outs? >>

No, audio input signals are not automatically passed to the outputs. This is easy to see: just look at the output meters in VM. You won't see any audio in the output unless you plug something into the output.

With an FX Send/Return, the audio is fed to the effect and the output is blended with the original audio. This is typically used with effect like reverb that are set to 100% wet. The dry audio signal can be fed to the effect and the 100% reverb signal is mixed in with the dry audio, so you can control how much reverb is mixed in with the dry signal. If you're feeding audio to VM using a Send/Return, you'll always hear the dry audio. If you use "Direct" processing - also known as an insert effect - the dry audio is sent 100% to the effect, and only the effect's output is heard. This is how most effects are used, and it's the way you want to use VM, it sounds like.

Please let us know if you're still having problems. But definitely keep an eye on VM's output meters to understand what audio is coming out of VM.

Thanks!
Dan

Hi Dan,
Thanks for your prompt reply; you've summarized exactly what I'm trying to do, but I'm still struggling to set it up properly...

<<No, audio input signals are not automatically passed to the outputs. This is easy to see: just look at the output meters in VM. You won't see any audio in the output unless you plug something into the output.>>

Yes, I had noticed that. But even when the output meters show nothing, I hear sound. I just can't figure out where it's coming from.

Yes, I want an "Insert" effect, so I set it up in Reaper on two separate tracks:
Model-E synth (audio) ---> VM ----> Master out
The Model-E audio out is routed ONLY to VM, not to the computer out, not as a Master out... And yet, if there is _nothing_ hooked up in VM, the Audio In meter lights up, the Audio Out meters do NOT light up, but I hear the sound of the synth. Weird. I wonder if it's an option I'm missing somewhere in Reaper (I'm no expert at Reaper).

I'll try to include a screenshot of how I have it set up. If you have any ideas, let me know...
Thanks!
Tom

Looking at your screenshot, you have VM loaded in a send slot. it should be in the slot immediately below the Model-E plugin. That's where insert plugns go, and there's no need to put them on a separate track.

Ah yes, I've tried that. (I must admit, I'm not really clear on all this; my method is mostly try it and see...). When I put VM in a slot after the Model-E, the same thing happens... Sound comes through even though nothing is connected in VM (input lights up, output does not). If I turn off the FX in the Model-E track, all sound stops (nothing comes into VM).

In this case, it's like the FX (VM) is in _parallel_ with the synth, so when there is a 'cut' in VM (no internal connection), sound still comes from the synth. BUT, it's like they're in _series_, 'cuz when I turn off the FX, all sound stops. How can it be both? (Series/parallel; background in physics.)


By putting them on separate tracks, I felt I had clearer control over the routings, and could make it clearly in series.

I am now really confused...

You appear to be using the instrument version of VM. Use the fx version instead.

Thank you! That's the ticket; I was never sure what the difference was between an instrument plugin and an FX plugin. Still not sure. I'll have to do more reading, but that's exactly what I was trying to accomplish. Thanks for your help and patience, Dan and martb!

Cheers!
Tom